Comments

on article "Charter Of 1977: Actuality And Objectivity" by Evan C. Lambrou
(hellenic times, July 9-August 5,1999, pp. 5 and 10)

Atsaves

I went back and reread the article of Mr. Lambrou. It was a definite "attack" despite his protestations to the contrary.

Now the Spyridonites WANT the charter and regulations to apply. What a laugh riot!

So the EP commands the Metropolitans to commemorate him instead of the Archbishop (notwithstanding what the Charter says) and two and one half years later, the Spyridonites suddenly wake up and demand that he be commemorated as well?

My priest and several others have told me that the current "commemoration" during the Liturgy is correct. In Chicago we now correctly commemorate our Metropolitan Iakovos as well as the EP.

Mr. Lambrou is the first to argue otherwise. But then, I've read some of his other articles. Pretty wild stuff!

Regards,
Louis Geo. Atsaves

evagr...@my-deja.com

Mr. Atsaves and Dr. George,
Sorry, but what's the big fuss?
Getting name exposure during Liturgy?
Isn't that what commemorations are about?

Spyridon's upset cause his name's not mentioned?

Well, God won't forget so why worry?

Seriously, this really reminds me of the Three Stooges. Imagine them as hiearchs.

Could they do worse, or be funnier?

DrGeor107a

Ah, you don't understand. This is because you are a xeno barbarian. :-) ( No offense intended Bro:-) For we Hellenes, it is not what you are that is important. It is how it LOOKS!

The Archbishop once tried to have a pastor of Forty Years reassigned because he thought the guy had commemorated the wrong Archbishop when he first got here. It is just an example of "Vanity, Vanity, all is Vanity.

In Christ,
Dr. George

evagr...@my-deja.com

Dr. George,
Don't you think you'd be a liiiittle bit humble if you paraded around in a black dress/robe with gold trim and wearing a Parkay margarine crown?

Isn't that why they dress like that? To keep them humble? After all, they really can't wear Saville Row suits and Gucci shoes!

Perhaps today they should wear little clown hats and noses (kinda hard to listen to them when they're trying to say something serious).

Seriously, I think that perhaps bishops should reflect on the fact they serve US, not the other way around.

So, if they don't get commemorated, who cares if you forget to mention the servant when saying grace?

DrGeor107a

Well Evagrius, let me give you an example of the Bishops humility.

Quoted from a recent Voithia Editorial:
"Having observed the tragic events in our Church over the past three years, it has become abundantly clear to me that our Archbishop and Patriarch are woefully lacking in the most fundamental elements of humility and love, or at least in the skills of communicating these virtues to us. I say this with pain and sorrow, and not in judgment, for it is not my place to judge. Rather, I say it as the observation of one of their spiritual children, as a member of what has become of late a rather dysfunctional family.
Our hierarchs have lost sight of what our Holy Orthodox Church means."

________________

I have just received the July issue of the Orthodox Observer.

Within the first seven pages, the Archbishop is mentioned 39 times. Patriarch Bartholomew is mentioned 14 times.

And the true head of our Church, our Lord Jesus Christ?

He is mentioned once, and only once, on page 2 (not even on page 1!), in a passing reference to the mission of IOCC.

This is more than an outrage; it is obscene! Our Archdiocese has become a cult of personalities, of Bartholomew and Spyridon, and this cannot stand. What shame and scandal has befallen us. The blood of the martyrs was not shed for the glorification of our hierarchs, but for our All-Merciful Christ Himself. Christ wore the crown of thorns for us, and they dare speak of personal dignity? The maker of the universe was suspended naked on the cross for us, and they have the audacity to speak of prestige? The saints and martyrs weep at such folly. Our hierarchs would do well to remember that Christ came to us not as a feudal overlord, but as the most humble of servants, who washed His disciples' feet, and then gave His life for us, His earthly children.

What continues to astound me in this unfortunate saga is the complete indifference which the Patriarch appears to be showing towards his flock. It is, correctly or incorrectly, perceived as an absence of love. The few words he has tossed our way are veiled in such Byzantine trappings, that they mean little to the average American, and have only served to further confuse and alienate us. When I saw the Patriarch in Chicago, I was, frankly, somewhat disappointed in his message. "Hold your traditions," the Patriarch had said. What did he mean by this? Traditions with a "T', or with a "t"? Traditions such as constant prayer, frequent fasting, and reading of Scripture? If this is what he meant, why not come out and clearly say so, because this is a message that we, especially here in America, are in dire need of hearing again and again and again. Or did he mean traditions like being ethnocentric, speaking Greek (as he did almost exclusively, despite his fluency in English and the "Pan-Orthodox" nature of the Liturgy), or having our foustanella-clad children pledge their eternal enmity towards the Turks every March 25? For a man universally praised for his intelligence and charisma, I cannot understand why his message to us here in America is continually murky and confused. Speak to us directly, not in the flowery and ornate speech of your office, but as a father would to his children. Help us to understand, and we will listen. Come to us, and we will welcome you, with the love of children thirsty to see a recognizable display of their father's love. Jesus took on flesh, came down from heaven, and became the second Adam. Cannot the Patriarch hop on a plane and come here to America to witness firsthand the problems of our Church, to stay with us until our troubles are resolved? What father would not drop everything and rush to the side of his ailing child? Let us not put prestige ahead of love.

As we enter the fast commemorating the Dormition of the Theotokos, let us all fervently and ceaselessly pray to the Most Holy Mother of God to intercede on our behalf, that we, along with our hierarchs be imbued with humility, love, and mercy, and that through these virtues our Holy Orthodox Church be unified to the glory of Christ our God. Lord have mercy!

Atsaves

Its all vanity. Such pettiness and silliness has been the defining behavior of the Spyridon administration in the GOA. Spyridon at one point indefinitely suspended a priest who allegedly did not "commemorate" him during a liturgy. A spy even tape recorded the liturgy as "proof." (I guess the spy was not there to worship and pray to 'you know who' who gets forgotten in these petty little disputes.) Then a huge argument broke out over whether he did or did not commemorate Spyridon, or whether he did or did not commemorate correctly at all.

After nearly a year of this (blankety-blank) stuff, the Patriarch during his US visit had to step in and order the priest reinstated or unsuspended.

Another fine example of Hierarch leadership which has plagued the Spyridon administration. But then the "canons" do not permit us silly uneducated backwater unwashed new world laity types an opinion on such earth shattering affairs of the Church.

Of course, Moe would try to slap some sense into Curley, and Curley would first look astonished then get mad. And Moe was the brightest of the three which can be pretty scary to think about if you equate Moe with EP Bartholomew and Curley with Archbishop Spyridon.

I guess that leaves us lay people to play the part of the perpetually befuddled Larry who would always watch Moe and Curley go at it until they would turn on him!

Regards,
Louis Geo. Atsaves

Vasos Panagiotopoulos  (+1-917-287-8087 Bioengineer-Financier)

What is even more of a laugh (according to friends who are in the Greek diplomatic corps) is that the same grand conspirator (hints: wrinkled raincoats.. Chicago.. hobnobber..) who pulled the bait-and-switch at Ligonier is said to have convinced the EP that Spyridon should be removed because Spyridon is supposedly plotting autocephaly (ie- the reason for removing him is autocephaly not all the other complaints against him).

DrGeor107a

This rumor is not as far fetched as it may sound. I had heard rumblings of it myself as the supporters of Spyridon have now started attacking and threatening the EP themsleves.
Dr. George

Warecliff

Well, see, George, at long last a point of agreement with the Spyridonites!
Seriously, though, the "sklavoi" seem to be saying precisely that.
Jack Clifford

evagr...@my-deja.com

DR George,
I've had to really think this out; I'm reading the book, Conversations with Patriarch Bartholomew, by Olivier Clement.

Now, I know quite well that Mr. Clement is the major intellectual source for this book. In fact, he wrote it.

What he writes of Orthodoxy is excellent and I have no problem with it.

It's the observations/discussions/ essays on the Patriarch I find puzzling.
According to these, the Patriarch's only interest is to be a symbol of unity to Orthodoxy. He is not interested in wordly power or any other aspect of politics etc; Honest! He wants to identify himself as Servant of all, honest! He wants to free Orthodoxy from division and unwieldiness. Honest! (I hope you get the drift)

So, this book has me puzzled as to who the Patriarch is.

There are two possible solutions, both somewhat related.

The first is that the Patriarch has an evil twin, Skippy, who has taken over the Patriarchy. The real Patriarch is stuck serving burgers in a beanery in Manhattan.

The second is that the Patriarch is a Jekyll/Hyde personality. With Clement, a peaceful Dr. Jekyll, civilized, humane, urbane, etc; After Clement leaves, the Patriarch rushes to his room, ingests a potion, and turns into Mr. Hyde. He rushes about ordering Spyridon to his fate.

Of course, another view is possible. Perhaps the Patriarch is more subtle than we think.

I sense an underlying subtext in the book, one not articulated or said very openly; that there is in the Orthodox Church the same power struggle and resistance to change as in the Vatican. I think there are a number of groups struggling in the Phanar, one group willing to abandon pretensions and create a new type of Patriarchy, the other hanging on to the shreds of power and history, refusing to acknowledge reality.

Now, perhaps Spyridon belongs to the latter group, which, at present has major influence in the Phanar.
What better way to destroy an enemy than to give them what they want? Spyridon wanted power; he got it; he just forgot power has a price, the respect of others.
His group got control of the richest Orthodox church, but at what a price!

Now, I don't know if this is true but such machinations are not unkown in the history of the Church, no?

DrGeor107a

«There are two possible solutions, both somewhat related. The first is that the Patriarch has an evil twin, Skippy, who has taken over the Patriarchy. The real Patriarch is stuck serving burgers in a beanery in Manhattan.»

Or there was a transporter malfunction and the EP was split into his two component parts like Captain Kirk was. Unfortunately the Holy Bart immediately took off for a hermit's cave in the desert upon materializing, leaving behind Evil Bartman to decimate his Church.

«The second is that the Patriarch is a Jekyll/Hyde personality. With Clement, a peaceful Dr. Jekyll, civilized, humane, urbane, etc; After Clement leaves, the Patriarch rushes to his room, ingests a potion, and turns into Mr. Hyde. He rushes about ordering Spyridon to his fate.»

There is no potion here. In reality, this is just standard everyday Byzantine behavior.

One is supposed to say one thing, think another, and then do neither. They then are to look down on all the simpletons who expect to have some rational outcome from any conversation or dialog as being spiritually immature, heavily influenced by the Scholatic West, and thus quite incapable of self government, unlike the goat herders in Albania who have grown so rapidly in a few years so as to merit Autocephally in an instant because of their intimate knoweldge of the intricate Byzantine mind...

It is just that you don't understand the nuances of the Byzantine mind. The EP shows us his love by demonstrating how easily our Church can be decimated without his protection and the super abundance of his concern for our unity.